"It starts from determination, so be determined about your career and things can happen."

Anshu Sharma Raja, CTO of Standard Chartered Bank joined us on our second episode of Panelle Talks. Anshu is a strategic leader with over 25 years of experience in investment banks and tech firms. And not only that, but she’s also recognized as one of the top ten influential data science leaders and is coauthor of influential works on education and technology.

After an incredible chat with Anshu, we’ve narrowed down some of the best takeaways from this episode for you to learn from…

To listen to the full podcast, visit Panelle Talks on Spotify or click here.

Anshu, you are here to talk about building a career versus doing a job. Where do we start with this?

So look, first of all, I want to make sure that everybody who is seeking a job doesn't feel put down because not everybody wants to have a career and that is absolutely fine. If I can talk about myself, I was very happy being at the top of my class, doing the things that a regular kid would be doing but, the ambitious streak came to me when I was in college and I realised that computer science was interesting.

From an educational standpoint, you know, growing up in the early 90s, it was fascinating. I did not know the word technology. You never used the word technology like we use it today. But it was absolutely fascinating to see what computers could do and to be part of that journey.

My career is a part of my personality; I give it the right priority. Is it the number one priority? No. Is it number 2 or 3? Yes, somewhere between my children and my other responsibilities. And I've continued to invest in that.

I think that's what has kept me going, you know, I'm now coming up to about 28 years in my career and sometimes I think in the next 5 to 7 years perhaps I would like to get out of the corporate rat race but I'm sure I will still continue to be intellectually employed, if you will. So, I think that it has now become second nature, that has become part of my skin.

Amazing. Do you know the exact point where you decided that you wanted a career? Maybe it wasn't even a conscious decision. What do you think brought you into that more ambitious mindset?

Can I be brutally honest? It was financial independence. Once you've tasted financial independence, where you are making your own investment decisions, where you are able to go and buy a house for yourself or you don't have to think twice before buying anything that you want. True financial independence, I think that has been the biggest motivator.

I hope I'm not sounding greedy, but it’s true. Most women who have children, for them, having a child is a life altering experience and that's the time where they question ‘Am I able to balance it or not?’ And a lot of times we see that women tend to give up their careers or their jobs because that's the easiest decision that they can make. Was I at that point? Yes.

But I never thought of giving it up. I have to be thankful that I was in a place where there was a support system available. I had a support system, so when I was thinking of going back to work after my first child, I was not looking at ‘Do I even want to go back?’, but my question was ‘My money can buy me X, Y, Z, how do I create that enabling, support system?’ And that helped me very, very much.

So I don't think I was at any point thinking that I will not continue in my career in the last 28 years that I've been working. If that day comes, you know, it's going to be difficult for me.

I wonder what you think distinguishes building a career compared to just doing a job. You've spoken about financial independence. Is that the key factor there, or is there anything that goes into it?

I would say it's a mix of many things. You're not just chasing money. After a point, you know, money then becomes an automatic byproduct of what you're doing in your career. A job also fetches you money, let's not get it wrong, but it was, for me, the financial independence that a career brought. And I do differentiate between the purchasing power and the financial independence.

I manage my own money and it gives me a lot of pride, it gives me a lot of excitement. Not everybody likes to do that, right? But I think, the financial part aside, there are also other things.

You really need to enjoy doing what you're doing because otherwise you will get bored. And the joy of work comes from many, many parts. One is what you can create and then the other aspect is what the environment around you is like. I've been in places where the environment was very toxic and so I decided to cut my losses and walk out of those places.

I was proud to stand up and say, ‘I am not going to take this.’ It may hinder me in my career, but it is just not working for me because it is not allowing me to grow, it is stunting me as a person. So it has to be a mix of many things. It has to be the job content.

You need to really like what you are doing and be interested in that area, coupled with the fact that you know who you are working for, who you're working with and all of that. And then also the compensation. Let's not kid ourselves. You also need to feel valued because compensation is the value that the organization places on what you bring. You need to feel adequately valued as well.

I strongly believe that a career is like a marathon, right? You have to have the stamina to go. Not every kilometer or every mile will be at the same pace, the pace can go up and down, but it's about the stamina, that you don't give up. Sometimes you will go uphill, sometimes it will go downhill. Sometimes the constraints or the ecosystem around you can be positive, sometimes it can be against you, but you need to still continue to go.

But you also bring other people along with you, right? So I think that is also one of the other aspects. I feel satisfied, though my work is not done, but I do feel satisfied that in this journey I've been able to role model and pull other people forward too.

So, role modeling is also very important, just the way it is important in a marathon. I know that because, you know, the rest of my family are marathon runners.

I love that analogy. I have to ask, what do you do to celebrate your wins? I think it’s a real thing for women in particular to not completely acknowledge how much they've achieved.

Oh, you're absolutely right. In fact, the celebration comes second. I think first is to even accept it. If somebody congratulates you, a lot of times we get very sheepish about it and we think we don't deserve it. But yes, I think I've learned to take it very gracefully, take the compliments gracefully as well, to accept the compliments gracefully, because a lot of times women think, ‘Oh no, it's all right’. It is not all right. I think it's a great deal.

While you don't want to brag, of course, you do also want to make sure that you don't undermine yourself. So I do celebrate. In fact, every time I've gotten a big bonus, I've gone and done something material with that so that it reminds me and it continues to help me push forward. It could be either for myself, for somebody else, and so on. Like when I was in India, for most years on my birthday I would go to an orphanage and spend the whole day there with them. But I've also bought some very significant material things for myself, as well, to just remind me that you have got to keep pushing.

I don't compare myself to the others, I compare myself to myself. Where was I two years back? Am I moving ahead or not?

Definitely. I think self-reflection in a career is so essential, especially in your industry where everything is so rapidly evolving. How do you stay relevant and adapt to all the changes within your industry? That is a huge task.

It is indeed huge and it is extremely hard. It is not easy, right? It is not easy unless you want to dedicate 30 hours out of your day to just reading and figuring things out. It is taxing on time. Look, I'm also not a person who's happy to be a geek all the time. I also have my non-geek side. I love to travel, cook, and I'm also a photographer. So, I also have to decide which side needs nurturing, which needs the time, as well.

So, it is very difficult for somebody like me, but I found my ways. I found my ways by engaging with people who know more than me so that I can learn from them. And also using the power of technology. I really relied on audiobooks. I really, really relied on podcasts. I think those are some great media methods.

Now, when you're driving, when you're in the airport, you can even download them and when you're on a plane, you know, rather than watching a rerun of a movie that you have seen many, many times, now I listen to audiobooks.

So, I try to find pockets where I can gain this information. There are now different ways of absorbing knowledge. But you're right, absolutely. In a technological world where things are moving so rapidly, it is hard to keep up pace.

Well, that's where building relationships, as you just said, and networking is probably cited as one of the most critical aspects of career advancement.

Indeed. You know, the other thing I realise is that a lot of women shy away from networking. They feel networking is about going and having drinks with somebody and I’ve heard people say before that if you're not smoking, that you're kind of left behind.

But networking is also the power of showing up. And a lot of times people do not show up. So you have to find time and obviously choose your right platforms, etc. but do show up and be there and be present. That is important 100%.

How can you really use networking to your advantage? As you say, a lot of people do feel uncomfortable with it and often miss the actual point of doing it in the first place. There’s an idea that it’s just socialising but that’s just the first step, isn’t it?

It's about saying the right things, asking the right questions. So, first of all always have a pitch in your head. You need to have a pitch in your head which is about, you know, what you do, what value you add, what are you interested in, what are some of the challenges you're facing, etc. So depending on who you're talking to, you're able to pitch yourself. It is your brand that you are putting forward.

That's important because otherwise you’re either in listening mode or you're not showing up. And that's what I mean by showing up 100%, that you are showing up ready. You're showing up ready and have a perspective on things. You need to be able to form a perspective on things, be able to share a perspective on things. Otherwise, you will just be a bystander.

"Nobody else is going to be your brand manager. You are your brand. You have to be your own brand manager."

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